How to Debate Without Hate with Corey Nathan

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_04]: This quiet cast podcast is bought to you by the I was a teenage fundamentalist podcast

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey Brian, do you know anyone that was once a teenage fundamentalist?

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll try you know that I was because you and I have a podcast called I was a teenage fundamentalist

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh Brian, I sense the Lord at work, he works in mysterious ways

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So tune into I was a teenage fundamentalist, the official podcast for the Azusa Street revival

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not quite sure that's true, but it is available wherever you get your podcasts

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It's time for another round of Snarky Faith with your host Stuart Delony

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a space where we are reverently wrestle through life, culture and spirituality

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: All with our heads in the clouds, our tongues and our cheeks, our hearts and our sleeves and our feet on the ground

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_01]: At Snarky Faith, the questions or even the answers are never the point

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all about the conversation

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So here's your host, Stuart Delony

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_10]: Welcome back to Snarky Faith, I'm Stuart Delony, your guide

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_10]: Through the wilderness of spiritually disenfranchised radio

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_10]: At enough of the insanity and Christianity

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_10]: Well you've come to the right place

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_10]: We're here on a quest for a sane, grounded faith that aims to make the world better in real tangible ways

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_10]: We're not afraid to call out the religious BS or to look for better pathways forward

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_10]: If you're conversations about faith, require a heavy dose of sarcasm

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_10]: And even a bit of this

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_10]: Then welcome home

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_10]: You can find this and all past episodes at Snarky Faith.com

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_10]: Or wherever else you listen to podcasts

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_10]: We're here, we're there, practically everywhere

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Just look for Snarky Faith

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Previously on Snarky Faith

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Many people believe one of these three lies about hell

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Line number one, hell's not real

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Line number two, hell's going to be a great big party

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And line number three, hell is a temporary holding place

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_05]: The 100% truth is that hell is real and it is not temporary

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It is permanent

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And anyone who rejects God's free gift of salvation will go there

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_05]: If you want to receive God's free gift of salvation

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Today hit follow or subscribe right now

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Watch the video that I pinned below

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, that is really how salvation does work

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_10]: You really need to follow, subscribe

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_10]: In order to be able to experience the fullness of salvation

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know too much about hell

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't even think it's real

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_10]: But you know what would be like hell on earth

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_10]: Project 2025

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_10]: If you don't know what I'm talking about, Google it

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_10]: You should and it is terrifying

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Welcome to the show, what a good way to start

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_10]: Welcome to Snarky Faith

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm soared low to your host

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_10]: And this week we are going to be talking with Cory Nathan

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_10]: Cory Nathan of the podcast

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_10]: Talk in politics and religion

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_10]: Without killing each other

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_10]: So Cory is going to sit us down

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_10]: And tell us how to be able to have

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_10]: Dialogue

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_10]: That isn't riching

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_10]: And not nasty

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_10]: Now I also understand that in our show as we begin

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_10]: We get a little nasty

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_10]: We get a lot of things

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_10]: A Cory is going to tell us on our show

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_10]: Not to do

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_10]: So in the spirit of that, why spoil what I've already begun

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_10]: And let's kind of summarize

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_10]: Where we've been over the past couple weeks

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_10]: Because there's a lot to unpack here

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a lot to talk about

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_10]: And there's really something I want to focus on

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_10]: That a lot of folks missed

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_10]: Because everything has been happening so fast

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_10]: In politics and America

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_10]: And you don't really mention politics without religion

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_10]: Because in America it's a certain part

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_10]: It's all the same

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_10]: But think of this, think of this

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_10]: In like the span of like two or three weeks

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_10]: We had

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_10]: The Orange Messiah

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_10]: Almost got squeezed

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_10]: With an assassination attempt

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_10]: Then we had Biden drop out of the race

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_10]: Then we had Kamala hop in the race

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_10]: Then we discovered that JD Vance has a weird obsession

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_10]: With couches and dolphins

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not going to spend time here talking about it

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_10]: But it's a really fun rabbit trail to go down

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_10]: If you want to on the internet

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, JD Vance

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_10]: Couches

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_10]: It's fun

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Trust me

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_10]: But what I wanted to kind of plant myself

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_10]: In our conversation piece

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_10]: To begin the show

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_10]: I wanted to talk about how Christians have responded

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_10]: To the assassination attempt on their orange Messiah

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, I'm not condoning violence

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not making fun of it going on

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm making fun of how they

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_10]: How they have framed this assassination attempt

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_10]: So how about this?

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's go ahead and hop into

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_10]: The choices cuts of Christian nuts

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_10]: That's right

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_10]: It's the Christian crazy

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm using the loving and loud and wrong

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_06]: I want to be right

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Hello, members

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_06]: The Lord is my shepherd

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_06]: He's known I won't

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_10]: So first up in the Christian crazy

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_10]: Version of bad takes

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_10]: On the orange Messiah's assassination

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_10]: We have Kenneth Copeland

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_10]: And this should be surprising to all of you

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Because you're like what?

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_10]: Kenneth Copeland, he's such a stable guy

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_10]: He's not a really cheesy gross grifter

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Wait, actually he is

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_10]: No, never mind

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_10]: You're right

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_10]: He is the guy that tried to blow COVID

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, the guy that was like

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's blow COVID

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_10]: In Jesus name

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, in all honesty

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_10]: I would only give COVID a handy in Jesus name

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_10]: But you know, I'm not a prophet like Kenneth Copeland

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_10]: So let's hear

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's just dive into this

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_10]: This is like one of the most sick of

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_10]: Fenty things you'll listen to

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_10]: This week

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_10]: Blend until we get to the next bit of the Christian crazy

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_10]: This is Kenneth Copeland

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Talking about Trump's ear

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Here you go

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_07]: We're going to pray right now

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Over President Trump's ear

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And the others as well

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_07]: So let's start with him

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Put your hand over your ear

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Father in the name of Jesus

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_07]: We pray over Mr. Trump right now

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And we thank you for an accelerated healing process

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Lord, I thank you that Jesus healed

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_07]: And healed in the ear

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, he can do it right now

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_07]: With President Trump

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_07]: And they'll not be one sign

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Not one thing

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Lord that will even tell

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_07]: That he was shot at

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_07]: We thank you Lord for the deliverance

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_07]: His deliverance right now

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_07]: In the name of Jesus

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Father we pray over others

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Be rewarded

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And thank you for the miraculous move of God

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_07]: The healing power of God

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Upon them

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Working within them

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Be healed

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Be healed

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Be delivered

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Now

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Be healed

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Now

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_10]: But again

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_10]: The do died

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_10]: A guide died

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_10]: But we're really concerned

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_10]: We're really concerned about Trump's ear

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_10]: We really really really want it to be healed

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_10]: So no one can ever see the topy tip of his ear

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_10]: And go, oh no

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_10]: Something happened

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_10]: Your beauty has somehow gone down

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_10]: Because of that ear

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_10]: You know because he's a gorgeous man

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_10]: He's a gorgeous, gorgeous man

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_10]: But what would a bizarre narrow focus to be fixated on this?

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_10]: Not only violence in America

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, no, we don't want to talk about that

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_10]: We don't want to pray about that

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_10]: We want to pray about the one guy

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_10]: That didn't get critically injured

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_10]: Ignoring the others

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_10]: And just really praying in the most vain way

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_10]: But I guess if you're going to pray for Trump

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_10]: In their mindset

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean he is a vain son of a bitch

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_10]: So I guess

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_10]: I guess that's the kind of prayer

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_10]: The jibes well with Trumpy

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah, yeah

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_10]: It's just so weird and it's so sick

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_10]: But it's so so so

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_10]: Kenneth Copeland and his church

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_10]: Those folks are just a bunch of weirdos

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_10]: And not to be outdone in like the weirdos fear

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_10]: We've also got Jack Hibbs

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_10]: Jack Hibbs is going to tell us

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_10]: How we should really really look at this

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_10]: At this injury and Trump's ear

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_10]: And what it says about God

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_10]: Enjoy

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_11]: Mr. President

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_11]: If you're watching this right now

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_11]: Your right ear

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_11]: Was bloodied

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_11]: It wasn't your eye that got shot

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_11]: It wasn't your nose that got shot

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_11]: It wasn't your temple that was intended to be shot

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_11]: Your ear

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_11]: Was hit

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_11]: But we would like and pledge and pray

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_11]: That you might

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_11]: Bow your knee before the Lord Almighty and say

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_11]: Not only did God do this

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_11]: Because I know Mr. President you said that today

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_11]: That God protected me

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_11]: But who is God

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_11]: Mr. President who is he?

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_11]: What's his name?

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_11]: You've heard it for years

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_11]: It's time to bow the knee

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_11]: It's time to say that Jesus Christ is Lord

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_11]: That He's the one that rules over the affairs of men

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_11]: He loves and died on the cross

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_11]: And rose again from the grave

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_11]: It is Jesus Christ

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_11]: The King of Kings

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_11]: And the Lord of War

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_11]: And he desires that own men

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh my goodness

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh my goodness

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_10]: I couldn't take much more of that

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_10]: But you know that you're a toti

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_10]: Especially like a pastor toti

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_10]: When you were preaching a sermon

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_10]: And speaking out

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_10]: President Trump if you're watching me right now

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_10]: If you're watching me right now

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah I'm going to turn this one moment into a call for salvation

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_10]: What a good twist

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_10]: Because any good pastor should be able to twist anything

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean I think that's what we learned in seminary

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_10]: You need to twist anything into a salvation story

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_10]: Or or one of tithing

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_10]: Or one of tithing

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_10]: But guess what? Guess what

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_10]: If that wasn't odd and weird enough for a Sunday sermon

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's go ahead and listen to a little more of Jack Hibbs

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_10]: Talking about ear blood

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_10]: And what does it mean?

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Besides, out my ears cut

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see that's me

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not a prophet

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_10]: If I was a prophet and would have seen this

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_10]: I would have said oh no

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_10]: This is a sign

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_11]: But God said all those

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_11]: Who represent me in the priesthood

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_11]: There's to be a sacrificial basin of blood

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_11]: And I want the toe of the priest to be dipped in the blood

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_11]: The big toe, the right toe, dipped in blood

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_11]: I want the priest thumb, dipped in blood

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_11]: Because his feet and his decision making

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_11]: It's covered in my blood

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_11]: And then take the blood from the basin

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_11]: And put it on your right ear

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so what Hibbs is trying to get out here

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_10]: I think he's quoting from his Leviticus

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_10]: I think his Leviticus ate somewhere around 22 or 23 here

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_10]: And 23 it says this

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_10]: Most is slaughtered the ram and took some of its blood

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_10]: And put it on the low of Aaron's right ear

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_10]: On the thumb of his right hand

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_10]: And on the big toe of his right foot

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_10]: So

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_10]: And then I think they go and do fourth to Aaron's sons

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_10]: Which is the idea that that's how they're somehow concentrating

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_10]: And establishing a priesthood

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_10]: But I just love that idea because what do you inferring here

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_10]: Mr. Hibbs? What are you inferring?

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_10]: Are you inferring that Trump is almost surprised

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_10]: Now we all got to do his dipis toe somewhere in it

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I don't want to look at his feet

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_10]: That sounds kind of gross

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_10]: That's a mental image nobody wants

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_10]: And I just put it in your head

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Because I put it in my head

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_10]: And I said it out loud

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm sorry

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_10]: I apologize for that

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_10]: But no this is crazy

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_10]: This is crazy what's been happening

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_10]: Because you have

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_10]: All of these Christians

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_10]: Trying to find scripture

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_10]: And trying to find some sort of representation

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_10]: Of how this could

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_10]: This moment could have been something divine

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_10]: As opposed to just saying oh yeah

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_10]: This is a guy that has stoked violence

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_10]: And continues to stoked violence and division

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_10]: And this is a response from that kind of

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Postering

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_10]: And I cannot tell you how many times

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_10]: That I saw it's just over social media

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_10]: Folks also trying to point out this fact

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_10]: Because guess what? Listen to this

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_10]: Listen to this

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_10]: It's totally real

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_10]: The gunshots rang out

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_10]: From the gunmen

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_10]: At 6.11 pm

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_10]: And if you look up a fiends

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_10]: 6.11

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh Jesus

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_10]: Fiends

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_10]: 6.11 says put on the armor of God

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_10]: So that you may be able to stem firm

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_10]: Against the tactics of the devil

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_10]: That is that is signs

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_10]: You'll deliver that is prophecy

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh my gosh

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_10]: That is absolutely not how you read scripture

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_10]: That's not how you read scripture

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_10]: That's not your handling scripture in a way

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_10]: That it's just really weird and bizarre

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_10]: And you're kind of just

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_10]: Or sing it into your own narrative

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_10]: Which is really really really bad exegesis

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_10]: And if we want to go on really really bad exegesis

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Then I will give you this one

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_10]: Revelations 13

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_10]: 3

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_10]: And I saw one of his heads

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_10]: As if it were wounded to death

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_10]: And his deathly wound was healed

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_10]: In all the world

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_10]: Wondered after the beast

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_10]: Hmm

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_10]: See I can play that game too

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_10]: I can play that game too

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_10]: But I don't want to because it's idiotic

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_10]: It is a more on it game

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_10]: But you know play more on games

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_10]: You get more on prizes

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_10]: I think that's kind of how it works

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_10]: But all of this going on

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Which is what you would hope

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_10]: That you would hear from pastors out there

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Would be trying to lower the temperature

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_10]: Trying to be able to bring us to a place

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_10]: Where we realize violence is bad

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_10]: And that others

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_10]: The other across the aisle that we look at

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_10]: It's kind of what Christ talked about

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_10]: This idea of loving your neighbor

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't think they get it

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_10]: They do not get it

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_10]: And all of this just gets more and more terrifying

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_10]: Because all of Trump's little magnatotes

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Are following in line with that type of rhetoric

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_10]: They're not looking to dial it down

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_10]: They're looking to dial it up

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_10]: Because they believe they have got on their side

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_10]: And if gods on their sides

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_10]: They want to get old testament on some people

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_10]: Well if you don't believe me

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_10]: You should listen to Mark Robinson

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_10]: And Mark Robinson is an insane candidate

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_10]: In my state of North Carolina

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_10]: He is running for governor

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_10]: We've had Mark Robinson on the show before

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_10]: In the Christian crazy of course

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_10]: But this kind of rhetoric is where we get to

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_10]: Very, very scary and dangerous places

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_10]: See if you can pick it out

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm pretty sure you can

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_10]: I believe in you

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_06]: You know as a time when we used to meet evil on the battlefield

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_06]: And guess what we did to it

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_06]: We killed it

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_06]: We didn't quibble about it

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_06]: We didn't argue about it

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_06]: We didn't fight about it

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_06]: We killed it

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_06]: When the Japanese bought Pearl Harbor

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_06]: What do we do?

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_06]: We fluted Japan

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_06]: And we killed the Japanese Army and Navy

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_06]: We didn't even quibble about it

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't start this fight

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_06]: You did

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_06]: You wanted to be left alone

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_06]: You should left me alone

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_06]: We didn't argue when capitulate and talk about it

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Well maybe we shouldn't fight the Nazis that hard

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_06]: No they're bad

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Kill them

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Some liberal somewhere

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_06]: It's gonna say that sounds awful

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_10]: Too bad

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_10]: That sounds awful

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_10]: This kind of stuff is terrifying

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Because because really what Robinson is sending

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_10]: a situation here in his kind of like stromann argument for this

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_10]: In the past

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_10]: We've had to kill people

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_10]: Because of war

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_10]: Right

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't think anybody glorified the killing parts

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean unless you're like Quentin Tarantino

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_10]: Nobody really glorified the killing parts of World War Two

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_10]: We're not trying to say that was good

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_10]: It was just what people did

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_10]: In order to stop the war

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_10]: But this kind of rhetoric at this kind of time

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Especially from a person who has

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_10]: spoken out so hatefully against the LGBTQ community

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_10]: Continues to call people that are trans trash

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_10]: And this kind of stuff

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_10]: This kind of stuff to the followers

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_10]: All they're going to hear is

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_10]: Well it's almost like World War Three

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_10]: With my neighbor

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_10]: But I got a kill him

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_10]: You know in Jesus name

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_10]: This kind of stuff is scary and it's sick

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_10]: But Stuart you may say

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_10]: That guy is a politician

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_10]: Now he may like to quote scripture

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_10]: He may like to stand behind the Bible

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_10]: And a lot of different scenarios

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_10]: But he's not a guy that's in a pulpit

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_10]: Even though he was actually giving that speech from a pulpit

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_10]: But let's go ahead and listen to

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_10]: Evangelists Chuck Harding

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_10]: And Chuck is you know

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_10]: Is any good evangelist reaching out to people

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_10]: Being compassionate for people

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_10]: So you know we know Chuck here is going to have a very

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_10]: New wants and well thought out take

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_10]: On the situation that we're in

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_00]: For and treat God

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Interceding in prayer

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You see truly I believe

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_00]: The future belongs to us

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't belong to the heath

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It belongs to God's people

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You know just like I do

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: What it says

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And for a Sanctuary in 7th or 14

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: If my people got says

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: My people which are called by my name

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Shell humble themselves

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And pray and seek my face and turn from the week away

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And then will I hear from heaven for give their sin and heal their land

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_00]: The future belongs to us

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't belong to the Sodomite

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But if we don't pray

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_00]: If we don't ask God for some miracles

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_00]: See I truly believe this

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_00]: God is still the God of the miracle

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_00]: He's performed miracles

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: For us

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Individually collectively nationally

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: For as long as we have a history

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen that

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: We know we should have won the war

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_00]: For independence

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But we did

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_00]: He said by the party

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if patriotism is a good thing

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Some of the young fellas coming up

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Think patriotism is wrong

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you kidding me?

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus Christ came to seek

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And to save that which was lost

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But he also wept over his national capital

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh yes

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_10]: God it's a Jesus wept over his national capital

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_10]: We're need these guys

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_10]: We've been on January the 6th

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_10]: When that whole insurrection was happening

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_10]: No again this is very dangerous speech

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a very us versus them mentality

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Jesus talk about everyone in terms of us and them

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_10]: No everyone is your neighbor

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_10]: Will I have an enemy?

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't matter

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_10]: You're supposed to love your neighbor

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_10]: And you're supposed to love your enemy

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_10]: But we need miracles

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_10]: We need miracles

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_10]: You know miracle

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_10]: Would actually bring these

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_10]: Hateful, bigoted folks

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_10]: Bring them to the understanding

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_10]: That they have nothing to do with the teachings of Christ

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_10]: That would be that would be a glorious miracle

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_10]: But I'm not putting much hope in that one

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_10]: And that leads us to rectally to our Christian cringe

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_10]: It is the worst

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_10]: It is the absolute worst of the Christian crazy

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_10]: So in this will beautifully dub tail into things

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_10]: You'll see you'll see it's going to come full circle

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_10]: And what we've been talking about this morning

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_10]: So let's go for it

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's have your Christian cringe

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_12]: Question, who in?

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh God please no

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_12]: No

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_12]: And again Christians get out

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_12]: And vote just this time

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_12]: You won't have to do it anymore

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_12]: Four more years

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_12]: You know what?

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_12]: It'll be fixed

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_12]: It'll be fine

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_12]: You won't have to vote anymore

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_12]: My beautiful Christians

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_12]: I love you Christians

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not Christian

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_12]: I love you get out

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_12]: Get out and vote

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_12]: In four years you don't have to vote again

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_12]: We haven't fixed so good you're not going to have to vote

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh my Christians, my little Christians, my dear little minions

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_10]: So my little Christians, you heard it

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_10]: You heard it from the Orn's Messiah

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Hey Christians if you get out and vote

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_10]: And get them in this time

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_10]: Don't worry about voting

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_10]: Don't worry about voting ever again

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_10]: Because he's going to fix it all

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_10]: It's totally going to fix it all

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_10]: And you would assume something like this

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_10]: Would have happened way, way, way before

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_10]: Pew pew pew pew

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_10]: Happen to him

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_10]: But no, no, no, no, no

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_10]: This happened recently

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_10]: Him telling folks don't worry

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_10]: You don't ever have to vote again

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_10]: This cringy and it is scary as hell

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_10]: And if you don't believe me

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Wait till you get to this next clip

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_10]: Now this is Texas State representative

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_10]: James Tolerico

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_10]: And I love this guy

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_10]: I have had his clips on here before

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_10]: And it is his warning

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_10]: But he is expressing how to speak

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_10]: About the other side

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_10]: Even when they're very dangerous

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_10]: But how to speak about it

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_10]: In very clear concise terms

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_10]: And again, it's a warning

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_10]: About project 2025

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_10]: If you don't know about it

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_10]: You should

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_10]: Google it or or

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_10]: Go over to patios.com

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_10]: And look up snarky faith because I have an article on there as well

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_10]: But enough about me, let's get to Texas State representative James Tolerico

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I know what's coming

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I see it every day at the Texas capital

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: They are testing these ideas

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: In states like Texas before they take the nation white

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Bating books, banning abortion, forcing every teacher

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: To display the ten commandments

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Replacing school counselors with untrained

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Chaplains, defunding public schools

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: To subsidize private Christian schools

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_02]: We are sleepwalking toward theocracy

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And we must act with the urgency that this moment demands

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_10]: So in the spirit of acting

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_10]: Under the urgency that this moment demands

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_10]: I did this interview with Corey Nathan

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_10]: A couple months back

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_10]: And it was a great interview

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_10]: I love sitting down and talking with him

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_10]: And Corey is all about being able to have

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_10]: Same conversations with people that don't believe like you

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_10]: And even though I know I've just roasted folks for like the past

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know 20 minutes

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_10]: Because that's what I do

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_10]: I do think this is a very very edifying conversation for us to have

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think this is something that can be enlightening

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think this is something that can help us

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_10]: To move forward in better ways

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_10]: To engage others differently, to be able to engage in politics

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_10]: And we have to be able to engage differently

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_10]: But this is a great conversation that we had

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm so glad that I had him on the show

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_10]: For going to use scripture out of context

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_10]: First, such a time as this

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_10]: So without further ado, let's hop to the interview

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_10]: With me today is Corey Nathan

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_10]: House of the popular podcast

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_10]: Talking politics and religion without killing each other

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_10]: And that is precisely our aim today

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_10]: Corey is here to shed some light on navigating this tricky

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_10]: Conversations with folks who see the world differently

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's time we're keeping things civil

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_10]: Seems more challenging than ever

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_10]: His insights

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_10]: Hopefully

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Couldn't be more timely, especially in 2024

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_10]: So welcome Corey, welcome to the show

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Stewart, I have serious issues with you right out of the gate, man

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_09]: You said talking and killing

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_09]: It's talking and killing man

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Come on, get straight

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_10]: Dang it, okay, thank you

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_10]: I did, I was an unceation, an unceation

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you, thank you sir

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_10]: Other than that, I'm doing great

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, great awesome, awesome

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, the kick things off

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's kind of dive into a little bit about your podcast

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_10]: And background because I feel like

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_10]: The question about how you started your podcast

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_10]: And your background or little intertwined

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_10]: They are

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_10]: And your story, so how

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_10]: Does one become a beacon of reason

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_10]: And the tumultuous see is a political and religious discourse

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_09]: You're giving away too much credit

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Be kind of reason

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_09]: I lose my shit on the drop of a dime

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_09]: But that's actually why I started the podcast

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_09]: I started the project is that

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I know in myself that I am not doing this thing well

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And what we speak in politics and religion

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Like in polite company or like you're supposed to say

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, let's not talk politics and religion

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm thinking what the hell else we have to talk about

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Like politics and religion is how we live well among each other

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Or it's our endeavor to try to live well among each other

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_09]: And the debate is, well, how do you do that?

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And within that, if we're not even talking to each other well

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Talking to each other well

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Then, then

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, this is now

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_09]: As John Hight

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Expounds so well in a recent Atlantic piece

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_09]: And in his upcoming book

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_09]: We're in our own version of a post-Babble era

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Right?

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_09]: We're geostorting ourselves

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_09]: We're in these bespoke realities

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Where we don't get each other's news

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_09]: We're to the point where

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_09]: And I do it myself like I do get say benchapiro

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Benchapiro, I've heard him on shared interviews

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Larry, Larry one more show

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Great show, great interviewer

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Such an area-died, funny guy comes from comedy and writing

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_09]: So benchapiro is on there

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_09]: They're actually having a very productive conversation

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_09]: So I went on to superhero show

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Having a very productive conversation

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_09]: But also I subscribe to Shapiro's show

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_09]: And I see every single day

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Just by the title of the episode

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just, I'm not going to listen to this

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not interested

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_09]: But what am I doing?

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_09]: I am insulating myself

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Even if there's some

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Cringeware these stuff from my perspective

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Like I don't need to see him blown up barbie

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I don't need to see him

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_09]: You know taking aim at a bud light can

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Or making fun of Taylor's

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Like I don't know

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_09]: It to me that's just culture war bullshit

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_09]: But I'm interested even if I strongly disagree with some of his conclusions

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm interested in somebody like that's argument

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I've seen it on my show

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_09]: When I had Lieutenant Colonel, retired Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Venman on recently

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_09]: And two different people from

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Interestingly to extreme opposites of the political spectrum

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Said I didn't even tune into it

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_09]: He one dude said, well he is a warm-unger

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_09]: The other dude said, well he's, I forgot the word he used

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_09]: But he's a military guy

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_09]: He broke the chain of command

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_09]: So they didn't even bother tuning in

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And so that's what that's what's happening

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_09]: We're in our own version of a post-babel era

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Because we're not even allowing ourselves to listen to somebody

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_09]: You might disagree with us

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Right?

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_09]: So I kind of went on a rabbit chat

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Followed a rabbit cell here

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_09]: But that's, that's what's behind

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_09]: My personal story is

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Related to that

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_09]: I grew up observantly Jewish

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_09]: became a Christian when I was 29

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_09]: So I had to have very challenging conversations

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_09]: It's like just strange conversations

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Hard conversations with my dad

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_09]: In particular as well as other family members

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_09]: About why I thought you show a ben Joseph was Machia

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_09]: And then once I got to the church

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe this is, I'm curious about your background as well

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Stuart but when I got to the church

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_09]: I realized over the course of a couple years

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_09]: That a lot of guys were much more committed

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_09]: to their political and social positions

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Than they were to the Bible

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Or they would call themselves Christians

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_09]: And they probably still insist on

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_09]: That notion that if they're religion

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_09]: And their relationship with Christ was first

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_09]: I would say though that

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_09]: If Jesus said something that was at odds

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_09]: With your A priori political positions

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, you know, God forbid

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_09]: You actually heard something from the sermon on the Mount

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_09]: You know?

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_09]: That dude sounds like liberal Marxist

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, whatever

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_09]: We don't want anything to do with that

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Well it's Jesus

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, you're all right

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_09]: You know

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_09]: So I was having these challenged

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Conversations in the church as well

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_09]: But about politics

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Because it was at odds with what I was very convicted

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_09]: By the theology, by the

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_09]: The devart horrors that I heard this Jesus teaching

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's my best

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Fast forward

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Decade in a half later

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_09]: I saw it happening all around me

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_09]: And thought that more so than any particular issue

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, foreign affairs, immigration, tax policy

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_09]: We couldn't even talk to each other

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Let alone a bow to each other

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_09]: And ethical, and integrative

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_09]: NABRELY way

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_09]: So I wanted to just put one little drop

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_09]: One little drop into the cultural conversation

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_09]: To see if we can try to do this better

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_10]: I love that

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_10]: Because you're right

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Being able to have constructive conversations

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Instead of us just kind of yelling at each other

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_10]: Or yelling past each other

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_10]: About all of these kind of topics

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_10]: Especially ones that matter whether it's being through politics

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it just gets tiring

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_10]: Exhausting

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_10]: And like what you'd mentioned at some point

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_10]: We just turned it off

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, especially if it's something that we don't want to hear

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_10]: And we don't really like

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Now

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_10]: You do this on a regular basis

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_10]: You mentioned earlier

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_10]: You talked to folks from very, very different perspectives

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Now

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_10]: How do you create space

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Where people feel comfortable

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_10]: To be able to share their views

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_10]: And are even open to having constructive dialogue

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_09]: It's a discipline, man

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Or maybe a better word is it takes practice

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_09]: It takes, sorry

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm becoming the old Jew that my father is

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_09]: So I got a lot of fliming and I got stopped

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_09]: So if you hear me make bodily noises

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_09]: That just comes with a package

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_09]: You know as much as I believe in Jesus

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm still a Jew

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So forgive me if I make a little Hach in the hoig music

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_09]: That's Irish

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, ancient, no, I'm not making it on just getting

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_09]: So it takes, to answer your question

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_09]: It takes practice

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_09]: And I have certainly not perfect at the art

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm not being falsely humble

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_09]: And saying that

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I regularly, maybe not every day

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe not even every week

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_09]: But I regularly stumble

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I just lose my shit sometimes

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_09]: So I realize that I got a continued practicing

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_09]: So what is the practice?

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_09]: When you find yourself in a situation

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Where there's somebody who disagrees with you

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Something you feel very strongly about

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Whether it's a religious conviction

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Or political position that you have

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_09]: You hold very strongly

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_09]: The practice is pause

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Listen, listen to more

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Listen to more, you know

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_09]: And be radically curious about that person's position

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_09]: It's because our tendency

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Mine is and a lot of folks I know

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_09]: And what I see taking place online

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_09]: And at bars or at a Bible study

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Or Bible studies at bars

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Is the, we hear something

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_09]: And immediately we switch into contest mode

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_09]: We switch into what if we think we're debating

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Or we think we're going to convince them

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And when the argument, when the contest

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_09]: That's an impulse

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_09]: That's a natural reaction

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_09]: To that, that we've learned

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_09]: In the way we engage with each other today

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_09]: But the thing is

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_09]: If we switch into that mode right away

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Number one, typically we haven't really understood

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Not only the position that that person is articulating

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_09]: But the person, the human being

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Who's articulating it

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_09]: So what I want to know

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Somebody, if somebody says something completely off the wall

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to know more about that person

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to know more about what's behind

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_09]: What they're saying

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_09]: A dude said to me

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Not maybe a month ago

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_09]: He was, he's a strong trump supporter now

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_09]: He pretended to be a Santa supporter

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_09]: But he was trump all the way

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_09]: And October 7th rolls around

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_09]: So I guess it was a little bit longer than that

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_09]: October 7th rolls around

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Wednesday after October 7th

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_09]: He hits me up

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_09]: I consider him a body

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And I have family in Israel

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_09]: So he gets me up, hey, core, how you doing

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for reaching out, Darren

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_09]: That's nice of you

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, so what's happening in Israel

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_09]: How do you feel about it now

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, well, you know, I got cousin's hair

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_09]: blah, blah, blah

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Before I could even finish, he was already sending me more text

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, don't you wish

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Are you trump sworey, how do you know what?

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Like if Trump was an office, you know, this never would happen

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm like

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_09]: First of all, so this is how awful I am

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Like first of all, fuck you

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Second of all, go fuck yourself

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Like serious, like I

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Is really, so my family is in peril

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I got eight nine of my cousins

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Who are between the ages 18 and 30

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_09]: And Israel are all being called up to the idea

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_09]: As we speak

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_09]: One of my cousins, her nephew

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Was missing, turns out he tragically

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_09]: He got killed on October 7

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Like that's where I am

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_09]: And now you're doing a white shoes

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Tuck, white shoes, Johnson, touchdown dance

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Saying oh, how do you like Trump now

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, back off for a second

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_09]: And first of all, forgive me if not

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_09]: If I'm not enthusiastic about the guy who goes out to dinner with

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Antisemites

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Forgive me if I'm not enthusiastic about the dude

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Who bare hugs the Jews will not replace us guys

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Forgive me if I'm not terribly enthusiastic about the guy

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But you want to bow down or worship right now

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm worried about my cousins in Israel

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_09]: But that's the thing man

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Like I had an impulse

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I say all this because like

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_09]: I have to confess that I have

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Proclivities

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_09]: But I also have limits

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_09]: But if that's the exception to the rule

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry, I sorry again, I you ask good questions

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm going off the rails here

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_09]: But like that's the exception to the rule

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_09]: More often than not, it's more about like

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Biden hasn't really done anything

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_09]: The economy is terrible

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_09]: I can engage with that

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_09]: So if I understand where the person is coming from

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Say, you know about the economy

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, a body of mine

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Said no, no, I don't think I think Biden's terrible on the economy

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And I had reason

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_09]: I've plenty of reasons why you know, just based on indicate

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Is why I think the economy is doing pretty pretty well

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Objectively

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_09]: But my buddy's point was I can't take my family out

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_09]: For a McDonald's dinner for less than 40 bucks

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_09]: So for me the economy is not doing great

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Ah, okay now I know something

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Now I can connect with him personally

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not going to try to bang them over the head

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_09]: With GDP growth

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_09]: With the desaleration of inflation

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_09]: With you know unemployment numbers wage

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Like that doesn't matter

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_09]: It's my buddy Austin

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Who can't take his family out to dinner

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_09]: You know that's how or you know gasp

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_09]: That's how it's hit him

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_09]: So now I'm talking to my friend a human being

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Austin

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_09]: And we're connecting on a relational level

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Not a transactional level, let alone a contentious level

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_09]: So those are some of the things that

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_09]: If I can press there are some things

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_09]: That don't don't get me started on a Trump and Israel

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Like don't just don't do that

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_09]: You heard a couple of you know

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_09]: You just like swallow to couple of three word talking points

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_09]: And now you're throwing them up at me

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_09]: As if they're weapons in your armory

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not ready to have that conversation

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_09]: But if you want to talk to me about you

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Your family, your job, how it's affected you

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Now I know you and I can connect with you

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And that can be persuaded

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Like on a particular policy issue

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't hold it that closely

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_09]: A particular politician

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't hold it that closely

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_09]: We can get to that conversation

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_09]: But if we don't have the connection of human beings

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_09]: And the relationship based as opposed to the transactional based

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_09]: We can't get anywhere

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_09]: So, sorry, long run to your question

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_10]: No I love it

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_10]: What I'm hearing too is what you're saying is being able to see

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_10]: See from their perspective and also have to empathy

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_10]: And those situations changes the conversation

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_10]: Or can change the conversation

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't want to turn to say it

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Because some people are just nuts

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, so what you're saying is my reaction

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_09]: To my body, the GFI

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_09]: It's not really the best way to engage

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Some of my friends, my nickname is GFI

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm a Jersey boy, so that's like it's another way to say

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_09]: And I love you

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_09]: They call me GFI

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_09]: So, you're saying that just having that impulsive reaction

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_09]: And like, punch them in the throat rhetorically

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_09]: That's not the best

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_09]: The most effective means of engagement

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's fun sometimes

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_10]: But we want that but you're right

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_10]: Nothing beyond me feeling warm and fuzzy

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_10]: And the asshole part of my heart

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_10]: I guess that's something that I'm going to get out of it

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_10]: How do you, because this is one thing that blows my mind

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_10]: Especially when you're dealing with people

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_10]: That do have like crazy conspiracy theory type

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_10]: Maga ideas

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I think this is back

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_10]: This is a couple weeks back

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_10]: There was a poll

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_10]: What I have here

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_10]: It was 18%

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Almost one in five Americans

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Believe that Taylor Swift was part of a government

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_10]: SIOP

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_10]: And so, you know, in these kind of scenarios

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_10]: What do you even do with this

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_10]: Because it is just so insane

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_10]: And like, not a butter that I'm not even sure

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_10]: How do you even have those kind of conversations?

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_09]: So a few things

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_09]: One is

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Going into a conversation like that

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_09]: With the right priorities and the right expectations

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I think is really important

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_09]: If your expectation is that

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_09]: You're going to help this person

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Dispense of all of their wrong notions

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_09]: In one conversation

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_09]: You're setting yourself up for failure

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_09]: So

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_09]: The

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_09]: First of all, my priority

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_09]: I try to remember that my priority is the relationship

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Over the transactional nature of some of these conversations

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_09]: So if I can nurture that relationship

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_09]: By 1%

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_09]: It gives me 10% of an opportunity

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_09]: To persuade

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_09]: But here's the caveat

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_09]: If I'm nurturing the relationship

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_09]: It means that my disposition is such

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_09]: That I can be persuaded

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Right?

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_09]: And if I am persuadable

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_09]: It is the

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Fertal field, if you will, of dialogue

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_09]: The Fertal field of relationship

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_09]: That gives me that much more leverage to persuade

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_09]: So I want to enter into it with the right priorities

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Relationship over contest, winning a contest

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_09]: And with the right disposition of

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to leave open the possibility

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_09]: That I can arrive at some point in conversation and say

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Huh, I didn't think of it that way

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I could see what you're saying

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Now I understand it better

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't think of it that way

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_09]: If that's my disposition in a conversation

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_09]: It's like

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_09]: I read this book a long time ago

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_09]: The Xen of Sword making and the art of tea

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_09]: It was during the summer of 2001

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_09]: When I was reading all these books before I became a Christian

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_09]: I was just looking for

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I was looking for answers

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_09]: I had fundamental existential questions

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I was looking for answers

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, so I was reading

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_09]: I was very compelled by the work of CS Lewis

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_09]: GK Chesterden

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_09]: I was moving in the direction of

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_09]: FW Borom

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I was moving in the direction of

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Finally reading the testimony

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Coming eventually

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Becoming a Christian

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_09]: But I needed to explore

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Or re-explore all of these other world

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Religions of philosophies

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_09]: One of the books was this book

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_09]: I think is named the Office of James Suzuki

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_09]: One of the images

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Is the Master puts his sword in the river

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's so perfectly made

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_09]: That a leaf floats by

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_09]: And then the leaf is cut by how perfect the sword is made

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_09]: The student knows

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Or the Master knows that his student has surpassed him

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_09]: When he puts his sword in the river

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_09]: And all leaves

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Somehow go around

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_09]: They don't even want to get into the fight if you will

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's just one illustration

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Of like I'm not looking for the contest

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I'm not going to win the contest

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_09]: If you think of my score

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_09]: The perfect rhetorical point

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I win

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Who wins?

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_09]: You didn't convince anybody

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_09]: And by the way, everybody who's watching

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_09]: First of all, nobody's watching

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Nobody's listening at a certain point

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_09]: But if they are, all they think is

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_09]: You're an asshole

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Right?

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's my expectation

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_09]: And my disposition

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Is if I can nurture the relationship

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And my expectation or my hope is that

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_09]: I can move one person by one percent

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_09]: In this one conversation

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's a good expectation

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_09]: So if it's something concrete like

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Listen, if there is an issue

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm a democracy zealot

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Like so I follow the 61 cases

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_09]: That the Trump campaign brought between

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Election Day and January 6th of 2020-21

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_09]: So I know that

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_09]: I know that like the back of my hand

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_09]: I know all of the arguments

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Some of which have zero merit

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I can't respond to Jewish space lasers

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Controlled by dead dictators

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_09]: That's not something that I can engage with you about

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, so

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_09]: One other thing I'll say about that

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Is that

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_09]: There also, you've all of an

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_09]: A great conservative philosopher

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_09]: He's with the American Enterprise Institute

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_09]: He said sometimes you just got to get to the point of saying

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, the Jewish space laser whatever

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm saying Uncle Al

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I really strongly disagree with you

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Now pass the gravy

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, you just got to be like

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_09]: We're good

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_09]: We can talk about the meds

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_09]: We can talk about any number of other things

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_09]: This is just not something we're going to be able to talk about

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So no one in your limitations is important to

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_10]: I love that

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_10]: And so that leads me to something else

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_10]: To what are ways to that you found

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_10]: Like your Uncle Al

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_10]: Gravy Boat situation

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_10]: What are ways that you've also found to be able to get out

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Of these kind of conversations

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Because sometimes I feel like you can be in heated conversations with folks

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_10]: And then at least for me, I've also noted

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a time where I feel like we've jumped the shark

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_10]: And nothing constructive is happening

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_10]: If we continue down this road

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_10]: What if ways?

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_10]: What are ways you found to be able to find the end of the door

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you want to get out of the conversation altogether

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Or do you want to stay in conversation in general

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_09]: But just not on those topics

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's go both

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, can we get me one of each?

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, so there have been plenty of times

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_09]: I have this body Robert

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_09]: He is just an earnest, loyal

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Good man

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_09]: He's just so admirable in so many ways

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_09]: But sometimes with him we've hit

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_09]: This is not even a dead end

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_09]: It's like a dead end with a bunch of TNT at the end of it

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_09]: And we just lose it

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_09]: So there are sometimes when I just got to walk away

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_09]: From the conversation from that evening

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_09]: All together

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's like we've got to

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_09]: We've got to go to our corners for a little while

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_09]: We can't talk about this

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_09]: And we'll hang out

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_09]: We'll share some, he knows his whiskey

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_09]: As much crap as I give him about

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_09]: He's kind of militant about how one should drink whiskey

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_09]: But usually he's just a mouth

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Right?

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Or is there a mouth?

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean he's like, you have to smell it a certain way

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_09]: That's take a little bit

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_09]: And then put the drop and then try him

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I'm like, I can drink whiskey

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_09]: And he's like, I don't need some glasses

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, so we could have a fun conversation

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_09]: About whiskey and me give him crap about how militant he is

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_09]: But we can't talk about politics for a time

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_09]: We can revisit it and enter with great caution

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's one instance

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_09]: With this dude, Darren

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_09]: I told him, look dude

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_09]: I am not in a headspace or a heart space

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Where we can talk about this

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_09]: I am not like you are wrong

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And I can't count how many ways

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_09]: But I am not the one who has the

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Who has the patience to walk you through it

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_09]: This is not going to go well

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_09]: If we continue to talk about this

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, it's more likely to end our relationship

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Permanently than it is to produce

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Any positive results from either side

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_09]: So I needed to know my boundaries frankly

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, there is, so I need to pull the record sometimes

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_09]: But that's like the one percent

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, more often than not if it does go south

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_09]: It's more like what I described with my body robber

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Where I just have to like, I lost my shit

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I did not, that was not the best of me

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not going to judge you about it

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's not bringing out the best in me

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And then thus it's not fair to you

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_09]: As my friend who I love

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So I need to back away from this for a while

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Can we revisit at some point in the future?

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's not, now's not the time

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Knowing that, knowing your limitations

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Knowing becoming more aware of my own

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Proclivities that I can then work on

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_09]: That's an important factor

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_09]: The other exit is just like

[00:45:47] Recognizing

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_09]: If you do want to exit from the conversation

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Exercising self control and restraint

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Of like for me

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_09]: I know that certain circumstances are not conducive

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_09]: For me to have productive conversations

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Like I'm going to sound like an asshole saying this

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But like some people like they're not my leek

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I read a lot

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_09]: I get, I have the privilege of talking to these incredible scholars

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Thinkers, leaders, elected, like

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_09]: So sometimes if I'm sitting around the table

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_09]: More than three people including me

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_09]: If there's four people out of table

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_09]: It's typically not a place where constructive conversations

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Like these are going to happen

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Because it just becomes everybody waiting for their chance

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_09]: To say the thing that they're thinking

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And not really listening to.

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's just from the others

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Are able to have that multi-person conversation

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_09]: And find it very edifying

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I just know for me like if it's three people

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm there one-on-one

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm typically pretty good

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_09]: So just knowing one's limitations

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_09]: And then sometimes just diverting the conversation

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_09]: If it is a one-on-one conversation that's not going well

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_09]: And you recognize it's not going well

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, there's other things to talk about

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I personally love talking about politics and religion

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_09]: That's primary for me because like of what I said before

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_09]: But there's other things

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_09]: There's family occupation, recreation

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_09]: You know like there's plenty other things to talk about

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_09]: So we can, we can divert the conversation

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Hey man, how about the men? How about the weather

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_09]: What is it that you do again?

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Did you get a raise?

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_09]: You got to learn whatever

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know. Whatever

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Just plenty other things to talk about

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_09]: You can direct the conversation too

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_10]: No, I love how you kind of frame this

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Into this isn't even necessarily talking politics

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_10]: What you're almost talking about

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_10]: It's just how to be a decent human being in front

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_10]: And many ways

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean because if you think about it like

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_10]: You'd mentioned your like

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_10]: Evangelism conversion story

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think too often we treat politics

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Like we're having to evangelize

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_10]: The other side to get us to this place

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think that whether it be religious evangelism

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_10]: Or even political evangelism

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_10]: When we lose sight of the other person that we're talking to

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_10]: Were they just from almost like a mark

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_10]: Or just another like notch in our

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_10]: Belts

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe that's all right one here

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_10]: But yeah, I don't know like that. Yeah

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_09]: You're onto something really important

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_09]: So rewind back to 2000 the year 2000

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And what I realized was

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_09]: The do that was talking to me

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_09]: To me the most about the possibility of becoming a Christian

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_09]: I saw it as prosalitization

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_09]: So I recognized from the get go

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_09]: In the first book that he recommended to me

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Was more than carpet to the Josh would doubt

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_09]: But I recognized this

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Tactic and the desired result

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_09]: The tactic was I am going to pound you

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_09]: I am going to pound you over the head

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Until or persuade you or use all of these

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Convincing techniques so that you say a magic prayer

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_09]: So that you get to have it and I'm like

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I've already read enough to know

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_09]: That that is kind of a capitalistic

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_09]: More-fired version of what the Bible is actually saying

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_09]: So we can stay in this conversation

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_09]: But I'm going to go about it a very different way

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I have existential questions

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_09]: That I want answers to and what seems to me

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Even though I hadn't read the New Testament yet

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Until October of 2000

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_09]: So I was doing all of this inquiry

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_09]: But I had read enough of the New Testament to say

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_09]: It seems to me that Rabbi Jesus

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_09]: The Jesus character in the translations I was reading

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Was in he was inviting people into

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Redefined version of the people of Israel

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_09]: A redefined version of people of God

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_09]: And inviting them into something to do a thing

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Like to be a participant in what we Jews understand

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_09]: As T. Koonol Lomb

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_09]: God's redemption project

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_09]: That's what I understood

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Not some like hey

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Here's four-versa-half of verse here

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Another verse here and another half of verse here

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_09]: And Romans and

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, now you should know you got to say the magic prayer

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_09]: You know

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_09]: So so a lot of our engagement

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_09]: We're caught in this

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_09]: It's a

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I can't think of the right word for it

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's like this contentiousness

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_09]: We think that if we go about it in perfect

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_09]: The perfect way we have just the right strategy

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Just the right words

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_09]: When the contest will win the game

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And then being we get like

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_09]: You know we get we get to win the whatever the prize

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_09]: You know and the prize is that person's soul

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Going to heaven as I think as I conceive of

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_09]: You know a secratic warped version of heaven

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Not necessarily a biblity based version of heaven

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_09]: So just a race all that like I'm not even playing in that game

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not playing on that field because I don't think that's the right field to play

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I don't think that with that's what the Bible say in

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, you know as well as our culture, our society

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Like what are we doing here?

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Are we doing T.Coonalum?

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Are we doing like healing the world of hills

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_09]: That are in the world or are we doing

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Zero-sum game

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_09]: You're the problem in the world

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm going to bang you on the head so that you know I can have your pie

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_09]: So just like backing up for a second and having more contextual understanding of what

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_09]: What game is it that we're in and what you know what

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Like philosophical existential questions

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_09]: As well as a piste malo epistemological questions

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Like I'm not necessarily depending on the person I'm talking to

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not necessarily going to get into it in that area of a way

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Not that they're not capable of it

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Like some people just aren't into it

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So depending on the person I want to get I want to speak their language

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to I want to I want to I want to get as close to where they are as possible

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Come to their house

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Some bodily and have the conversation on their terms

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_09]: But there are some terms that I'm like yeah, let's let's redefine this

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't I don't think you understand exactly what it is you're inviting people into

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Or trying to convince people of so let's talk about that first and then we have another

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_09]: A whole bunch of other conversations to have

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_10]: I love it. I love it because yeah, because again, it's it says it's us boiling it down for like angry mobs of thought process into individuals that were actually engaging in 101 now

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_10]: Speaking about discourse and about time do you do you feel like we're getting worse at it as a society being able to have types of conversations that matter and

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_09]: In a lot of depth. Yes, but that it's a very general question so in a lot of ways yes

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_09]: And we see the evidence all around us in other ways though. I am encouraged

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Because when I started this program I wasn't aware of many if any other projects or organizations

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_09]: That were

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_09]: seeing some of the same problems that I was seeing and

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Developing

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Answers or remedies

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_09]: To these problems

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_09]: But as I've gotten deeper into the work

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_09]: I am now aware of literally hundreds of people hundreds of organizations village square braver angels or even even

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Even media outlets that aren't necessarily dealing with it head on but are providing

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Answers to some of the specific problems like

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_09]: a lot of people complain about

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_09]: mainstream media

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_09]: actually

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not concerned about that like

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_09]: If you're concerned about mainstream media, you're just not working hard enough. You're not looking in the right places

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_09]: I look at outlets like the bull work. I look at outlets like the dispatch

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_09]: You know for real conservatives

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Like me, Burkian and William F. Buckley and type conservatives

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_09]: They're great outlets just like that politicalogy

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Is a great outlet

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Ron Cecil I think does a great job of putting together round tables to discuss democracy itself and where it's going

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_09]: So I think that in some ways yes

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_09]: The large networks like Fox and MSNBC

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_09]: But even even Fox and MSNBC or big new you know

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Institutional newspapers watching to post and and New York times

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Again, it's if you're just like oh New York times. I'm not gonna read anything from New York times

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_09]: You don't Maggie Haber is a really good reporter watching post not gonna read anything from there

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Robert cost is a really good reporter and some of their commentary

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_09]: You know George Will is always worth the read even if he pisses you off

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_09]: He's so intellectually stimulative

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Like there's so many writers and even the publications that get a bad rap

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_09]: But you're

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Developed some discernment look

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_09]: More read individual columnists or reporters

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Watch certain shows like I I

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_09]: On MSNBC I enjoy Ori Melbers show I think the dude does good research

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_09]: He approaches it from his background as an attorney so he brings on other attorneys

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_09]: I learned something I'll also listen to advisory opinions that has David French and Sarah Isker to

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_09]: attorneys. I don't know I think Sarah is a federal society attorney

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_09]: David probably came before that in his training but they're both very conservative leaning attorney

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'll listen to folks with different dispositions

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_09]: But the point is to answer your question in some ways the dialogue has gotten worse and the the media that we're consuming has gotten worse

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_09]: But at the end of the day what are my favorite expressions? I've learned over the last month or so is that's a you problem

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_09]: You know like yeah

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_09]: So if you're if you're concerned about where MSM has gone just look harder because there are good reporters

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Good journalists and it's upon you. It's your responsibility to educate yourself to be more discerning

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Good area-dite well-informed well-established

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_09]: opinions and reporting so that you can then be a part of those better conversations

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's the answer just like a good Jew. I would say yes, however

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_09]: You know

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Got two little three things about anyone one position

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Now now last question I got for you

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_10]: When you look out on this is gonna be a big year one way or the other

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_10]: It's politically speaking as what you're assuming I think there's something going on

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a couple of local elections near me that I'm really concerned about the comptroller. Yeah, my community

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_10]: What when you look at this because I know you you talk to many different people now this is kind of coming down to you

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we'll start with the bad first and because we'll hopefully land on hope

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll say what what is scar in the hell out of you and then what is given you hope

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_09]: What's scaring me is that?

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_09]: When I say that democracy itself is on the line

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_09]: A majority of folks would think I'm being hyperbolic

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_09]: It's not it's not the it's not even the idea that democracy is actually on the line or our democratic

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Republicans we know with the American experiment as we know it

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_09]: that is scary

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_09]: But the way the way that I'm trying to rain it in is I'm trying not to get too far ahead of myself because I do know

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Having studied politics and elections

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_09]: We are an eternity away from November

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_09]: In terms of how how elections go so I'm trying not to get too carried away with this possibility

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_09]: What is scaring me though is they're not nearly enough folks who understand what's actually on the line

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So or they think I'm being hyperbolic when I say that so

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_09]: That's scary

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_09]: What gives me hope is that what kind of what I was saying before and I can expand on that if you like but I don't think that's what you're necessarily asking

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_09]: What's giving you hope is kind of what I was saying before is that

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_09]: there is this

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Metastasized disease in our culture in our politics inner democracy

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_09]: But there are enough people and organizations who recognize it and are developing the anti bodies to address this disease

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_09]: So that that end

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_09]: God, you know frankly like I believe in God. I can't shake my belief in God

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_09]: I also can't shake my belief that I am I am not God so this is my two more reducible least

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_09]: There is a god I ain't got

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_09]: But I got like here's the thing God's not like sitting in heaven or his domain

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Which you know all of it's to his domain, but like God's not sitting there like Biden is fingernails like I wonder how this gets turned out

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_09]: You know he's not worried about it

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_09]: It'll be okay not only that like on a more human level like on our plane

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_09]: My family's been through this before man and we're still here

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_09]: You know my people have been through much worse over the you know several thousand years

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_09]: So we're still here, you know the Babylonians the Persians the Romans

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_09]: They weren't terribly good for us they upended our way of life in all different parts of the world

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Pre-deassparer post-deassparer we're still here you know

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_09]: So you know or my grandmother's generation

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_09]: They lived in that part of which now you crane when by when she was there still the Russian Empire

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Turn the australia few crane they lived in that part of the world for probably 800 to 1,000 years

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_09]: You know and there were different waves individual waves that threaten their way of life. They stayed there for you know the

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_09]: For several many hundreds of years

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_09]: You know it wasn't until the confidence of the Zarr's army the Bolsheviks the the the Kossacks

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Confluence of movements that it just made it so that well

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_09]: There's only so many

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Programs that we can go through before we just leave everything and go somewhere else and yet they survived

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Even though they had to leave where they had been for that 800 to 1,000 years

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_09]: They still some of our some of our people went to what became Israel 25 years later some of our people went to New York

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_09]: The people who stayed there some of them who stayed in Ukraine ended up a bunch of our other cousins got

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Ended up staying in the what became the Soviet Union came to in 81 82

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Some of our tragically some of our family stayed there and moved a little further north to Poland and we lost them

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_09]: We lost them in World War II. We lost them in the Holocaust

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_09]: But the the remnant of us is still here, right? So my hope is not God forbid we should go through anything even

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Remotely resembling a Holocaust or any of the other atrocities that my people have gone through

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think it's kind of it's going to be quite that bad

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_09]: But I do have hope that will be okay. We'll figure it out. I'll still be able to go get a tune in first sandwich with my buddy

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Who has some cock and Amy idea about you know Jewish space lasers and you know dead dictators

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's my home

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you, no that's that was I love that I love that that was great well

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_10]: Corey Nathan I appreciate you so much for being on here and the podcast talking

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_10]: Politics and religion without killing each other we got it finally in the end

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_10]: Corey thank you so much for your time

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you and see that gives me hope that I could persuade one person by one percent in one conversation

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_09]: We got to baby we could do this thing

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_10]: Love it. Thank you

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that was fun wasn't it much thanks to Corey Nathan you guys need to check out his podcast. It is good

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Just as good as he is right he's enjoyable. He's a great guy a love spending time with Corey

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_10]: But before I send you off

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_10]: Just a reminder to share the show subscribe and give Snarky a third view over on Apple podcast

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_10]: It helps to get the word out to new listeners and if you want to reach out to me directly hit me up over

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_10]: It's narkey faith dot com but thank you for being a part of this show week after week

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_10]: month after month year after year. I appreciate you all in this crazy time that we find ourselves in

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_10]: So remain hopeful remain vigilant and keep going keep doing the next right thing that you have in front of you

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_10]: And as I release you out into the wild wide world

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_10]: Send you out with the holiest amount of grace

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_10]: peace and snark

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm out of here

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_10]: Peace be with you

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_08]: This choir cast broadcast is brought to you by mornings was slayer marker

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